So here we are. You in this office, never having imagined until relatively recently that this was even on your radar or God’s radar. Tell me a little bit about that journey.

The journey has been amazing as I reflect on how the Lord has used a number of circumstances to prepare me for this. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that I would be working in a church. But on the flip side of that, it was interesting, the responses from people when I told them that I was going to be working at a church. They weren’t exactly what I expected. I thought they would be like, “Are you crazy? YOU in a church?” And it was more an affirmation — “You know, that does fit you.” The Lord has done a lot through my life in situations I’ve been in, challenges I faced and learning opportunities I’ve been presented.

Never a day wasted, huh?

You know, I look back at so many things that I have gone through. I started out of school in human resources and that was my specialty for a period of time. But the things that I have had the opportunity to learn and do kept getting broader and broader— which applies to this role. It’s definitely a lot more than human resources.

And over time there’ve been a number of challenges that I faced, both in the work that I was doing and also in various serving roles, that I think that helped prepare me. The Lord very clearly called.

More than once, right?

My initial reaction was “no.” My second reaction was “no.” But that “no” never was comfortable.

What did that feel like?

I was always thinking, Well, no, I couldn’t be in that role. But then you pray and give it some more thought and then you start thinking about pieces of your background and things that happened. So it wasn’t necessarily something I sought after. It actually scared me in some regards, because I admire a number of things that Steve has done over the years. I’m going Whoa. That’s an awful lot. I can’t do any of that.

But day 1 here, serving at First Free, I felt comfortable. A lot of times when I’ve switched roles, or switched organizations, my experience has been that there’s anxiety there. That wasn’t present here. That was a huge answer to prayer, not only my own but from many people. That support I felt was amazing. And I think it has so much helped this transition.

What did you want the staff here to know about you from your very first day in this role?

That I’m a Packer fan.

Well, that’s a cry for help, but what else?

That I love the church, And that I want to help the staff in their roles. They all have very specific ministries that are awesome. My role is to help them. My role isn’t necessarily focused on reaching out and touching hearts directly. Their roles do and I want to help them do that.

For the benefit of people who don’t know you very well, let’s talk about your family a little. You and Pat have been married for how long?

Thirty-eight years. And I want people to know that Pat has supported me so much during our marriage, and from day 1 has been extremely influential in my life. She and I started dating when we were in college (UW-Whitewater), and I don’t think it was much later in our relationship than our third date. We were talking and she said, “Do you know where you’re going to go when you die? Do you know for sure you’re going to heaven?” And I’m going, That was bold.

Did you know?

I did not. So, you talk about somebody who was bold, loving, caring. That was amazing. And she challenged me an awful lot in that regard. Ultimately in college, we started attending Navigators together. I had a Catholic background but started attending church with her.

I remember more questions came up. And it was on a Navigators retreat, my senior year, that I accepted the Lord. Pat was very instrumental.

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After Dean and Pat married, they moved around a lot for Dean’s jobs. Freeport. Clinton, Wis. Rock City, Ill. Milwaukee. Then New Jersey. Dean worked in HR and management for several companies. They moved back to the Midwest to help care for Pat’s mother, who had health issues. Dean took what he thought was a short-term role in Beloit. More than 20 years later, he was still there. Then, with his parents’ health declining, Dean and Pat made the prayerful decision in 2015 to move from Roscoe to Manitowoc, Wis., and help them.

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That must have been a hard move.

It was a challenging move, especially for Pat, but we really felt convicted. This was where I grew up, but Pat really didn’t know anyone.  My parents were not Christians, and we felt we should be there to help meet their physical needs and to be able to hands-on witness on a regular basis. So we moved up to Manitowoc. We were blessed, finding a home and being able to help my parents. And we both found work that, ultimately, we found very rewarding.

And then you came back.

Yeah. In 2021 we moved back. We missed everybody back here. It also had something to do with our daughter and son in law indicating that they were having our first grandchild.  Mt first thought, “OK, we’re putting the for-sale sign in the front yard, because I know we’re going to be moving back.”

Did your parents pass while you were there?

They did. If they were still alive and needing care we would not have moved back, but they and my aunt all passed within the time we were up there.

You’ve done a good job of segmenting life into seasons. Or maybe it’s just happened that way.

And again, there has been God’s guiding hand. I mean, we were happy in Roscoe and had our social network.  We both had good jobs – why would we want to leave?

But then all of a sudden we felt, This isn’t where you need to be.

For people who have never done those kinds of moves, they seem like a bigger risk than they turn out to be, don’t they? God goes with you.

Absolutely. Just look in the rearview mirror and see how many ways he has provided. There were a few challenges as we were preparing to move. Our Roscoe home sold much quicker than we anticipated.  The plan was we were going to be buying my aunt and uncle’s house, which holds a special place in my heart and happens to overlook Lake Michigan. However they kept stalling in finding a new place that met their needs.  It became apparent that they weren’t ready to move. We now were in the position we had to find a short-term place to live in northern Illinois and also find a place in Manitowoc.   

God provides. We found a short-term apartment rental (not easy with two dogs and two college-aged kids that were used to having their own rooms.  We also found a house in Manitowoc that ended up working out very well because once COVID hit, we had both children move back home for a period of time.

Through all the moves and all the changes, what did those teach you guys?

That we’ve got too much junk.

We’ve accumulated things that we didn’t need. And that the Lord is amazing in his provision. When we moved back to Illinois we were in a situation needing to buy a house again very quickly as our house up in Manitowoc sold much quicker than we planned on. We found the right one in Loves Park which happened to be for sale by owner (a Christian couple) and here we are.

Let’s talk about some of the fun stuff. You mentioned the Packer fandom thing. You’re a season ticket holder?

Yes. My son, Robbie was put on the season ticket list when he was born 31 years ago. And when he turned 28, his name came up on the list of being eligible to purchase season tickets.  Right now our package includes three regular season games and the opportunity to be in a drawing for postseason games. 

It’s kind of ironic: You finally got season tickets and now you work at a church. So Sundays aren’t so free.

Given I won’t be attending as many games, Robbie and I talked about how to work through this.  We pick one game that we will attend together each year (this year will be the Packers Bears game).  Then he looks if there are any that he won’t be able to attend.  This season it worked out that he wouldn’t be able to attend the Minnesota game.  We both knew of a Vikings fan that we thought might enjoy the game (hint: he is also our church chairman). Dave and Linda (Norberg) had a wonderful Sunday afternoon in Green Bay a few weeks back. While becoming a season ticket holder may not have worked out as planned, there are still the opportunities for Thursday and Monday night games.

You have taken this rivalry to extreme lengths, right?

Extreme? Well I guess some friends may use that term. In the 30 years that I have lived in northern Illinois, the Packers have definitely had the upper hand. One good friend in particular has “suffered” a lot.  We used to live two houses apart  when we lived in Roscoe. There are many things that we pulled on each other. On Christmas Eve one year, he had done a really nice job of lighting up the exterior of his house with floodlights in the Christmas colors, red and green. Christmas Eve night, I went and replaced all the red lights with the gold lights. And so his house was adorned for Christmas Day in green and gold.

I also remember you being a huge Jimmy Buffett fan.

Yes, sir. There were certain things about Jimmy Buffett and the Coral Reefer Band. He had a love for the sea, and I have a love for the sea. And, he had a different perspective on living life. I can’t say that I follow all of that, but it’s the love of the ocean and the laid-back life. Yeah. I can relate to some of that and yes I have attended 22 or so Jimmy Buffett concerts.

And did you have a vehicle with shark fins?

I had a neighbor who was very talented woodworking wise. He and a friend of a friend who was very talented with airbrushing were able to create a “work of art.”  This fin was mounted on top of the car when we went to concerts and also appeared in some videos played during the concerts. That fin still resides in a good friend of mine’s basement in a prominent spot. It’s the only reason I go to his basement, because otherwise it’s all Cubs and Bears stuff. But since that’s down there, I can go down there.

What’s something else about you that people might not know?

It ties into my love of the water. Growing up in Manitowoc, right on Lake Michigan, I didn’t appreciate it nearly as much as I do now. My dad and I would fish on Lake Michigan and catch a few fish now and then. I was intrigued that there were charter boats up there that would come in with a lot of fish. And I’d think, What are they doing differently? I think it was 13 or 14 at the time. I would ride my bicycle down to where the charter boats came in and would help them dock. I’d be looking at what baits they were using, trying to pick up any insight I could. After a while, they started talking to me a little bit and I’d find out where they were fishing, baits and other tricks of the trade.

One day, one of the charter boat captains said, “Hey, would you be able to help me out tomorrow? Could you be down here at 4:30 in the morning?”

“I get to go on a charter boat?!”

 He said, “Yeah, I need a first mate tomorrow.”

I rode my bike down to the dock in the morning. I drove the boat for him that day, and he seemed to think that I did an acceptable job. I got paid at the end of the day and said, I can get paid for going fishing? This is goooood.”

I was a first mate until I turned 18. On my birthday, I drove to Toledo, Ohio, to take the exam to get my captain’s license. This is a Coast Guard license that you need to be able to take people for hire on a boat.

Do you still have this license?

I do not. You needed to either maintain so many documented hours over a period of time, or you needed to retake the exam every so many years. I, unfortunately, was landlocked to the point that I could not accumulate the required hours. Nor did I really feel I wanted to take the time to prepare for the test.

I still enjoy time on the water and still have connections that provide that.

So that’s your perfect spot, out on the water somewhere. What is it about that?

There’s a peacefulness to it. There’s just a flow that you become in tune with. It’s interesting. When I was growing up, my uncle was a sailor. I used to make fun of him: “You can’t get where you want to be very fast on a sailboat.”

But over the past decade, I’ve come to enjoy sailing as well. It is really peaceful when you have the right conditions, you shut the motor down and you’re under sail. Boy, that is special.